home | about us | contact | site map | credits | disclaimer | bookmark

Casino Club steals eight thousand euros, then gives it back


Thursday, March 05, 2009

Casino Club steals eight thousand euros, then gives it back


Casino Club is an online casino powered by Boss Media software, and licensed in Malta by (oh, happy day) the Lotteries And Gaming Authority, about which I have written at length for Midas Oracle - see my LGA: the non-regulating regulator article.

Casino Club is one of the operations of Gaming VC, a company listed on the London Stock Exchange.

It is also a Casinomeister accredited casino.


In November 2008, a blackjack player won €8,000 at Casino Club. The casino immediately closed his account, accused him of using an "automated software programme" and confiscated his money.

The player reported his experience at a German roulette forum, and went on to complain at Casinomeister - see the Casino Club theft of €8000 discussion thread.


The response of Bryan "Casinomeister" Bailey was to support the casino, accuse the player of fraud, bar him from the forum and issue a threat to other players:


For those of you using bots at Casino Club, you're getting caught out and you are wasting Max's time with bogus PABs. I'd appreciate it if you'd all go take a hike and pull your crap with somebody else.

BS like this makes me tend to consider shutting down the PAB section for newbies. It's been done before - I'll do it again.



Fighting talk.

As such, we can assume that Bailey had some strong evidence against this player.

So what was the evidence?


Casino Club posted the player's play logs at his request - see the Casino Club response page at the roulette forum. They included the following comment:


Casino Club considers it inhuman to play for more than six hours with only three breaks of two minutes each. The total game play has a length of more than six hours. This case has also been investigated and concluded by Casinomeister.



The total playing time was actually five and a half hours, with a few two-minute breaks along the way. The length of these breaks would be consistent with visits to the toilet. The bet sizes ranged between €5 and €500.

Apparently, both Casino Club and Casinomeister consider this "inhuman", and therefore only possible with an "autoclick" software programme.


This is a patently absurd contention, and indicative of people who have little to no knowledge or experience of the tendencies of gamblers or the nature of gambling. Although a controlled player myself, I have sat at a blackjack table for five hours on occasions. Many people have admitted to gambling sessions lasting days on end, with no more than the necessary toilet breaks.

This is "inhuman behaviour", according to the uninformed and ignorant Casino Club, and supported by Casinomeister.


Additionally, autoclick programmes do not adjust betsize, they simply repeat the same movement over and over. Even if such a programme were ever developed, the suggestion that it might be used to select bet sizes of up to €500 units is ridiculous. Who would ever trust a machine with so much money?

That such volatile, unpredictable and high-risking play could be evidence of the use of an autoclick software programme is utterly nonsensical.


Having presented no evidence of bot play or anything remotely fraudulent, Casino Club decided to pay the player, after two weeks of being the subject of derisive comment after derisive comment - see the Casinomeister payment announcement post.


This in itself was a breathtakingly illogical and improbable announcement:


Casino Club is still convinced that the gaming session under scrutiny involved usage of a bot



And yet they paid. Casino Club considers itself to have been the subject of behaviour that infringed their terms and conditions, and yet they paid the player they considered had "cheated" them. Why in the world would they do this?


Can we make any sense of this comedic performance played out by Casino Club and Casinomeister? I think so. This, I think, is the correct event chronology:


• An extremely volatile blackjack player got lucky and won €8000. Unfortunately for him, his winning streak occured at Casino Club. Ah well; you win some, you lose some.

• Casino Club was not keen to pay this win, but since this was a normal gambling session on the part of a customer whose account was legitimate in every sense, they would have to push the boat out, invoke an improbable, unsubstantiatable excuse and hope they could get away with it.

• The excuse they chose was "bot use". Although there was no evidence of this, although the player's game logs demonstrated completely normal gambling activity, it was the best they could come up with.

• When the player complained to Bryan "Casinomeister" Bailey, Bailey sided with the casino. This was irrespective of the fact that there was no apparent evidence of anything other than normal play.

• There was general uproar and derision that such an obvious gambler could be accused in such an absurd way.

• In the end, there was nothing left to do for all the parties involved other than give up on a losing battle, pay the player and look utterly morally bankrupt.


To compound the circus act one step further, after Casino Club had paid the debt the Casinomeister "complaints co-moderator", Max Drayman, came out with the following idiotic remark, demonstrating his own monumental ignorance of gambling:


...a while back I handled a PAB where bot use was claimed and the proof given was a trace where the player was "playing" at about 500 hands per hour (sustained). The casino claimed that was sufficient proof that a bot was in use and I agreed with them one hundred percent. Would anybody here claim otherwise? I seriously doubt it. And so, voila!, we have a case where the play records and the conclusions drawn from them were pretty much beyond question.



Five hundred hands per hour is about eight hands per minute.


When I used to play blackjack on Realtimegaming software, I would play at speeds of up to eighteen hands per minute, about one hand every 3.5 seconds.

Playing extremely slowly, I would possibly tick along at eight to ten hands per minute.

I wonder how the uniquely ignorant Mr. Drayman would classify this? Would he consider me to be an extra terrestrial, endowed with inhuman gifts of gambling magnificence?


What a shameful episode. And what utter incompetence and ignorance demonstrated by the online gambling industry.


To conclude, Casinomeister Bryan Bailey summed things up quite nicely:


Max is under no obligation to state exactly what we deem as "exact" proof of bot play. You either trust us, or you don't - it's as simple as that.



As such, the uniquely ignorant Mr. Drayman, he of "five hundred hands per hour is proof of non-human play" fame, has an exact idea of what constitutes bot play.

But it is apparently not the above, it is something else.

And it cannot be disclosed.

And you can choose to trust him or not.


Thanks, Bryan. I think I know which option I'll be signing up to.


I highly recommend that noone play at Casino Club.



6 Previous Comments


Casinomeister is a joke. It is patently obvious from his forum posts that he really has no clue about gambling and his knowledge of casinos is limited to Microgaming slots. His latest appointment of Max "I dont know what Im talking about" Drayman is another backward step for the world of fairness in casino player support.

What a shameful industry this is when our only hope for justice and fair play is Bryan and Max.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:52 pm  


There are others. They are just relatively unknown to players at large.

There is the relatively new Gambling Industry Association. I did an write up last year - see my GIA article. You can post about issues in the complaints forum.

These are people I basically trust and who have the right connections. The concept is way superior to anything Casinomeister has ever offered. I wish it would take off.

So it's not all doom and gloom, even if it looks it when we see these kind of disgraces played out in public.

By Blogger 100% Gambler, at 2:19 pm  


Can the viagra spam hound who keeps submitting comments for approval on this article please give it a rest?

You're comments are never seeing the light of day (they go straight into my spam folder by default, which I periodically empty), but still you continue to submit them. Are you a bit thick? Do you not check at any point to see if your posts are actually appearing?

By Blogger 100% Gambler, at 3:16 am  


What a great web log. I spend hours on the net reading blogs, about tons of various subjects. I have to first of all give praise to whoever created your theme and second of all to you for writing what i can only describe as an fabulous article. I honestly believe there is a skill to writing articles that only very few posses and honestly you got it. The combining of demonstrative and upper-class content is by all odds super rare with the astronomic amount of blogs on the cyberspace.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:16 am  


Thank you.

Credits go to the Sandracer blog author for the original construction of the site, who also helps out when things go pear-shaped, as they occasionally do.

By Blogger 100% Gambler, at 1:02 am  


Pretty! This was a really wonderful post. daftar dewapoker 2018

By Blogger Black Hawk, at 7:55 am  


Post a Comment


May 2005 | June 2005 | July 2005 | September 2005 | October 2005 | November 2005 | December 2005 | January 2006 | February 2006 | March 2006 | April 2006 | May 2006 | August 2006 | October 2006 | January 2007 | February 2007 | March 2007 | May 2007 | June 2007 | July 2007 | January 2008 | February 2008 | March 2008 | April 2008 | June 2008 | July 2008 | September 2008 | October 2008 | December 2008 | January 2009 | February 2009 | March 2009 | May 2009 | June 2009 | July 2009 | August 2009 | September 2009 | October 2009 | November 2009 | December 2009 | January 2010 | February 2010 | March 2010 | April 2010 | May 2010 | June 2010 | July 2010 | August 2010 | October 2010 | November 2010 | December 2010 | January 2011 | February 2011 | March 2011 | April 2011 | May 2011 | June 2011 | July 2011 | August 2011 | September 2011 | December 2011 | February 2012 | May 2012 | July 2012 | August 2012 | March 2016 | April 2016 | June 2016 | November 2016 | December 2016 | March 2017 | May 2017 | June 2017 | August 2017 | Atom feed
© 2005 hundred percent gambling

ONLINE CASINO NEWS

• Online casino news


2016

• Can't split 10s?
• Overbetting
• EV charts
• The IPCA
• Basic strategy master
• Back to the future
• Site hack

2015

• Better comp value
• Pit bosses are a pest
• 32Red buys Roxy Palace
• Winneronline is gone
• Paradise Win Casino
• Blackjack simple strategy

2014

• Court refuses Ivey winnings
• Phil Ivey versus Crockfords
• 32Red does the right thing
• Wizard Of Odds sold
• Gambling addict sues Ritz
• Better blackjack conditions
• FL: the beat goes on
• Phil Ivey and the Borgata
• LadbrokesFOBT profit
• Chat with the Met
• "Bonus abuse" and the Met
• Casino industry crooks.
• Debate to curb the FOBTs
• Labour idea to ban FOBTs

2013

• Ruby Fortune: terms buried
• Royal Vegas: bad outcome
• Russia illegalises gambling
• RV: player breaks no rules
• Gib casinos and UK laws
• The GGC (GRA) useless
• BetFred rigged games 9
• BetFred rigged games 8
• Betfred rigged games 7
• BetFred rigged games 6
• BetFred rigged games 5
• BetFred rigged games 4
• Phil Ivey: is he entitled?
• BetFred rigged games 3
• Betfred rigged games 2
• BetFred: rigged games 1
•  UK GLA Act 2013
• 888.com and Facebook
• Crockfords denies Phil Ivey
• Bad dealers
• Betfair Blackjack test
• Playtech software update
• Cheap blackjack
• Hippodrome Casino

2012

• The UK's FOBT addiction
• Conan Casino beware
• Intercasino misleading
• Fortune Lounge
• UK Gambling Commission

2011

• Small Claims Court
• Gamcare
• Full Tilt Poker saved
• Full Tilt ponzi scheme
• Casino Barcelona
• Irakli Kacharava
• Betfair processor no pay
• Full Tilt licensing meeting
• UK Gambling Commission
• Full Tilt Poker investors
• Full Tilt license suspended
• Twitter
• Betfair resolution
• Casino Web Scripts 2
• 32Red bonus marketing
• Casino Web Scripts 1
• Poker domains seized
• eCOGRA independent?
• Easystreet Sports theft
• Betfair to Gibraltar
• Rigged blackjack 2
• Betfair responses
• Rigged blackjack
• 888.com theft
• Betfair poker problem
• UK gambling controls
• Harry Reid

2010

• eWallet Xpress
• Kevin Stillmock
• Blog back up
• Betfair happy hour
• Ladbrokes bonus increase
• Absolute Poker tricks US
• Absolute Poker rigged
• Last position no difference
• Basic strategy simplified
• Online casino bonuses
• Righthaven LLC
• Ladbrokes bonus rules
• Malta LGA nonsense
• Purple Lounge theft
• UK affiliates issue
• Online casino problems
• GPWA code of conduct
• One Club Casino problems
• Rushmore theft resolved
• Realtime Gaming cheats
• Absolute Poker Ultimate Bet
• Rushmore Casino theft
• Ask gamblers service
• Intercasino bonus terms
• Profitting from poverty
• Gambling dooms UK to ruin
• Want To Stop Gambling
• Gambling Therapy
• Gordon Moody Association
• Breakeven
• Online gambling jobs
• Gamblock
• Gamble Aware
• Gamblers Anonymous
• Gamcare
• Video poker auto hold
• Gambling Wages help offer
• Blackjack double down
• Intercasino rules
• Tradition Casino warning
• Tradition Casino problem
• Be The Dealer
• eCOGRA approved casinos
• UK underage gambling
• iGaming Super Show
• eCOGRA reputable portals
• eCOGRA exposed
• Slots Oasis warning
• Slots Oasis problem
• HR 2267 comments
• HR 2267 proposed bill
• Search fully functional
• Gambling hearing delayed
• Betfair download blackjack
• Betfair blackjack
• The Federal Wie Act
• Casino Rewards warning
• Kahnawake dumps GP
• GP dumps Microgaming
• UK online gambling
• Gambling checklist
• Online casino problems
• Gambling Grumbles
• Casino Rewards
• Brian Cullingworth
• Casino Wager Tracker
• Grand Prive affiliates
• Jackpots Heaven Casino
• Kahnawake commission
• UK gambling problem
• eCOGRA and Grand Prive
• Bet365 misleading bonus
• Mastercard and Visa
• Online gambling rules
• 32Red sign up bonus
• Ladbrokes data theft
• Ladbrokes unfair settlement
• Palace group bonus rules
• Grand Prive and eCOGRA

2009

• Blackjack in the UK
• Seminole Hard Rock
• The APCW and MG
• Sportsbook.com
• Slot beaters slot strategy
• Rushmore Casino theft
• Paddy Power affiliates
• Slots
• 888.com problem
• The UIGEA
• Neteller contest winner
• 888.com bonus problem
• Casino Club meeting
• Online casino directory
• 32Red debit card bonus
• Blue Square Casino
• Budapest Affiliate Expo
• Rushmore payment issues
• Modern Blackjack volume 1
• Eurolinx certain insolvency
• Buzzluck winnings theft
• PaddyPower removed
• 32Red lawsuit
• William Hill Casino Club
• Betfair video poker
• APCW underage children
• Odds page updates
• VP Genius
• Video poker page updates
• Blackjack page updates
• Progression page updates
• Single deck page updates
• Betfair Playtech license
• Cherry Red Casino
• Online gambling debate
• William Hill & Teddy Sagi
• Rogue casinos section
• Pontoon correction
• Microgaming poker scandal
• Casino Club confiscation
• Casino Club steals €8000
• Villa Fortuna Casino
• Grand Prive affiliate issue
• CAP and Cardspike 2
• Virgin Casino bad results
• CAP and Cardspike 1

2008

• iNetbet removal from site
• Mario Galea and Malta LGA
• Cold Mountain Resort
• The AGCC
• Moneybookers privacy
• Virtual Casino rebranding
• Captain Jack Casino
• Royal Ace Casino
• Ringmaster Casino
• Catseye Casino
• Lucky Palm Casino
• Pharaohs Gold Casino
• Goldstream Casino
• Plantet 7 Casino
• Betfair bonus confiscation
• Malta LGA worthless
• The GIA
• Interwetten theft of £5000
• Lucky Ace winnings stolen
• The KGC and Absolute

2007

• HippoJo Casino
• Microgaming All Aces VP
• Neteller issues
• Lou Fabiano responds
• Lou Fabiano selling stats
• Betfair Zero Lounge
• ICE 2007 brief visit
• RTG cancels ICE visit

2006

• Crystal Palace Casino theft
• eCOGRA & Jackpot Factory
• English Harbour cheating
• Boss Media single deck
• Bella Vegas / Grand Prive
• The KGC worthless
• Gambling Federation
• Playtech sued
• Meeting Andrew Beveridge
• Playtech confirmed listing
• African Palace Casino
• G-Fed ICE discussion
• Playtech ICE meeting
• Playtech issues escalation
• Chartwell hands off

2005

• Crystal Gaming silence
• Price Waterhouse Cooper
• Crystal Gaming flotation 2
• Vegas Frontier
• Crystal Gaming flotation 1
• Playtech public listing
• African Palace & Indio
• Kiwi Casino
• Rochester Casino
• G-Fed theft 2
• Warren Cloud best avoided
• Golden Palace stupidity 3
• Golden Palace stupidity 2
• G-Fed theft 1
• Golden Palace stupidity 1
• Russia online expansion
• Wan Doy Pairs Poker
• Microgaming CPU usage
• Net Entertainment RNG
• Cryptologic & William Hill
• Casino growth slow
• English Harbour paying
• Fraudster or not
• Blackjack surrender
• Integrity casino group audit